TERRY GROSS, HOST:

That is FRESH AIR. I am Terry Gross. This week, in celebration of hip-hop’s fiftieth anniversary, we’re that includes interviews from our archive with a few of the groundbreaking performers. Our first interview at this time is with Darryl McDaniels, co-founder of Run-D.M.C., one of many early hip-hop teams to interrupt into the mainstream. They’d their first hit again in 1983, “It is Like That.” In 1984, they turned the primary rappers to earn a gold album. The following yr, they had been the primary to earn a platinum. They had been the primary rap group to have their movies performed on MTV and the primary to look on the quilt of Rolling Stone. Run-D.M.C. was inducted into the Rock and Roll Corridor of Fame in 2009, making them the second hip-hop group to make it, after Grandmaster Flash and the Livid 5.

The group stopped recording albums after its member, DJ Jam Grasp Jay was shot and killed in a recording studio in Queens, N.Y., in 2002. Darryl McDaniels is the D.M.C. in Run-D.M.C. Run is Reverend Joseph “Run” Simmons, whose brother is Russell Simmons. Run-D.M.C. carried out earlier this month on the star-studded Hip-Hop 50 live performance in Yankee Stadium. Earlier than we hear the interview I recorded with Darryl McDaniels in 1997, right here he’s on “Sucker MC,” the B-side of Run-D.M.C.’s first file, “It is Like That.”

(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, “SUCKER M.C.’S (KRUSH-GROOVE 1)”)

DARRYL MCDANIELS: (Rapping) I am D.M.C. within the place to be. I’m going to St. John’s College. And since kindergarten, I acquired the data. And after twelfth grade, I went straight to varsity. I am light-skinned. I stay in Queens, and I like consuming hen and collard greens. I costume to kill. I like the type. I am an MC you already know who’s versatile. Say I acquired to good credit score in your regards. Received my identify, not numbers, on my bank cards. I’m going uptown. I come again house. With who? Me, myself and my microphone. All my rhymes are candy delight, so this is one other one for y’all to chunk. Once I rhyme, I by no means give up. And if I acquired a brand new rhyme, I am going to simply say it. ‘Trigger it takes so much to entertain, and sucker MCs could be a ache. You’ll be able to’t rock a celebration with the hip in hop. You bought to allow them to know you may by no means cease. The rhymes must make plenty of sense. You bought to know the place to start out when the beats begin.

(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED NPR BROADCAST)

GROSS: Darryl McDaniels, welcome to FRESH AIR. Let’s speak in regards to the historical past of Run-D.M.C., which spans plenty of the historical past of rap. However earlier than we do, I had requested you earlier than what you favor that I name you, and you’ve got an incredible rhyme that solutions that query. Would you simply do this rhyme for us?

MCDANIELS: Yeah. (Rapping) Nicely, you possibly can name me Darryl. You’ll be able to name me D. You’ll be able to name me Darryl Mac (ph), or you possibly can name me D.M.C. Folks all the time ask me, what does my identify imply? D’s for by no means soiled, MC for largely clear. However generally I inform them when sure folks ask that D.M.C. signifies that Darryl Makes Money.

GROSS: (Laughter) That is good. How did you first hear rap?

MCDANIELS: Wow, that is a very good query. The primary time I ever heard rap was again in 1970 – I believe it was both ’76 or ’78. There was a radio present. It was like an underground radio present, and the disc jockey’s identify was Eddie Cheeba. And the station was in New York. It was WFUV. And that was the primary time I ever heard rap. He had a rhyme the place he stated, (rapping) once you fiddle in New York city, you go down with the disco Cheeba clown. You go down, go down, go down, go down. You go down.

You understand, it was actually easy, however the first time I ever heard rap was again in ’76 or ’78 on WFUV, DJ Eddie Cheeba.

GROSS: Now, what made you assume, I wish to do this?

MCDANIELS: Nicely, after I first began out, I wished to be a DJ. I actually appreciated the scratching and the fast mixing and, you already know, doing the DJ issues – spinning data and mixing data forwards and backwards. After which out of, you already know, listening to DJs and finding out Grandmaster Flash, I began listening to, you already know, tapes of DJ Starski and Melle Mel and Kool Moe Dee and the Treacherous Three. And one thing simply sparked in me the place I wished to turn into a vocalist and categorical myself on the microphone.

GROSS: So did you sing earlier than you began rhyming?

MCDANIELS: No, I did not. I began rhyming first.

GROSS: And what had been your very early rhymes like?

MCDANIELS: Oh, properly, the very early – my very early rhymes had been, you already know, principally easy, speaking about I had the perfect rhymes. No person had extra rhymes than me. My DJ was the perfect DJ. We had the loudest sound system. You understand, it is easy stuff like (rapping) seed to an apple, apple to a core. I’m the person with the rhymes galore. Rock round for me. Rock round for you and all people catch the boogaloo flu. Hollis, Queens is the place I am from. Do not be silly. Do not be so dumb.

So it is principally boasting about my neighborhood, me being the perfect MC, and no one can take me out.

GROSS: Talking of your neighborhood, you are from Hollis, Queens…

MCDANIELS: Sure.

GROSS: …In New York. And the 2 different members of Run-D.M.C. are from the identical neighborhood, I believe.

MCDANIELS: Sure.

GROSS: And also you went to highschool collectively, proper? You knew one another earlier than you had been a gaggle.

MCDANIELS: Yeah, undoubtedly. All of us lived in 5 blocks of one another. We went to elementary and highschool and faculty collectively.

GROSS: So when did you really type Run-D.M.C.? The place had been you in your faculty years?

MCDANIELS: Nicely, me and Run first began rhyming and DJing collectively in my basement. I really taught Run DJ. He was rapping first. Then I taught him DJ, do the fast combine and spin data again and mix two of the identical data collectively. So Run and D.M.C. was, like, fashioned again in 19 – I believe it was round 1980. We began DJing in my basement, after which when he acquired higher gear than me for Christmas, so we began DJing in his attic. So I’d say Run-D.M.C. was fashioned proper then. After which because the group, it was 1982 once we put collectively “It is Like That And That is The Means It Is” (ph) and “Sucker MCs,” which was our first single. After which we would have liked a DJ, and that is once we acquired Jam Grasp Jay, who was the neighborhood DJ. He was, like, the perfect within the neighborhood. Jay would arrange his gear within the park, and he’d plug it into the sunshine submit. After which we might play till the cops would come and cease us. So really, we got here collectively as knowledgeable group in 1982.

GROSS: And had been you in highschool? In faculty?

MCDANIELS: We was all in faculty. We was all in our first semester of faculty.

GROSS: Did you permit faculty when you began performing?

MCDANIELS: Yep. We took a depart of absence and been absent ever since.

GROSS: What had been your dad and mom’ response to taking a depart of absence to carry out? Did they assume you had been making a giant mistake?

MCDANIELS: No, they was mad. They was like, are you loopy? What are you doing? And, you already know, even after they acquired a touch of me desirous to be a rapper as my profession, as my job, you already know, they was telling me stuff like, that is ridiculous. You higher keep at school, and we’re not paying all this cash so that you can go to St. John’s for nothing. And as a matter of truth, after I went to file our first single, I did not inform my dad and mom as a result of I knew they weren’t going to let me go. So that they was outraged, you already know?

GROSS: How did they discover out?

MCDANIELS: Nicely, I needed to come inform them the place I used to be at for the final 15 hours – you already know? – ‘trigger I simply left the home – it was a Sunday afternoon. I left the home about 1 o’clock, and I ain’t come house within the morning – until the following morning, like, 5 a.m. within the morning.

GROSS: Did you play them the file? Did they prefer it?

MCDANIELS: Yeah, I performed them the file, and so they did not actually prefer it until they heard it on the radio.

GROSS: Now, was that “It is Like That”?

MCDANIELS: Yeah. That was “It is Like That.”

GROSS: Nice. Let’s hear it. That is Run-D.M.C.’s first recording.

(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, “IT’S LIKE THAT”)

RUN-DMC: (Rapping) Cash is the important thing to finish all of your woes – your ups, your downs, your highs and your lows. Will not you inform me final time that love purchased you garments? It is like that, and that is the best way it’s. Payments fly larger each day. We obtain a lot decrease pay. I might quite keep younger, exit and play. It is like that, and that is the best way it’s.

GROSS: That is Run-D.M.C., their first recording. And my visitor is Darryl McDaniels, who’s the D.M.C. in Run-D.M.C. Now, once you began performing, it was the massive gold chain period.

MCDANIELS: Proper. Really, we began that…

GROSS: Yeah.

MCDANIELS: …’Trigger Russell…

GROSS: There’s some nice footage of you with big, huge gold chains.

MCDANIELS: Yeah. Nicely…

GROSS: Yeah.

MCDANIELS: Like, once we was saying Russell was a giant a part of that, Jay was all the time dressing like that. The way in which Run-D.M.C. dressed, Jay all the time dressed like that. So when Russell seen Jay, he stated, that is how you are going to costume. And that is when the gold chains got here into play. Jay had a gold chain earlier than he even considered being in Run-D.M.C. Jay wore chains like that when he was in highschool. You understand, it appears so humorous now, however again then it was, like, so cool, you already know?

GROSS: What do you assume it did on your picture again then?

MCDANIELS: What it really did – present that we had cash, you already know? It confirmed that we had the massive gold chain and the flowery automotive and that we had been really the superstars of the neighborhood, you already know, ‘trigger for those who acquired a giant chain and the opposite man do not, you have to be doing one thing. And, you already know, it additionally introduced a foul picture to us as a result of folks that did not know Run-D.M.C. earlier than we had an album cowl out thought we was simply drug sellers as a result of many of the drug sellers was carrying chains like that and driving in huge automobiles, even earlier than the rappers made it huge.

GROSS: So had been the chains strong gold?

MCDANIELS: Nicely, me and Run’s was semisolid, and Jay’s was strong.

GROSS: You had been youngsters once you began performing. How did you deal with fame when it first hit you and also you had been nonetheless in your teenagers?

MCDANIELS: Oh, man, fame hit us so fast. I imply, it is like, now we acquired this factor that we are saying that sure intervals in our profession we will not keep in mind, and we name it dazing. And it was similar to we had been simply in a daze. It was similar to every little thing occurred so fast – you already know, the primary file. Then we did the rap album, the primary rap album to go gold ‘trigger no one thought rap was going to promote. Then proper after that, we had the primary video on MTV, and that was, like, actually a precedent as a result of the one Black star they was really enjoying on MTV was Michael Jackson. Then we acquired on there, after which when “Rock Field,” which was the video that acquired on MTV, went into heavy rotation, Russell and all people down on the file firm and at Rush administration was all excited – y’all on MTV. And me and Run and Jay was like, what’s MTV? Why are you guys so glad about this? After which the massive tour, the Contemporary Fest tour, and we was going round promoting out Madison Sq. Backyard and all the massive venues – all of it occurred so quick that, you already know, it is like – it smacked us upside the pinnacle, you already know, the cash, the celebrity and fortune. It did not go to our heads, however it smacked us upside our heads.

GROSS: What was it prefer to all of the sudden have some huge cash?

MCDANIELS: Nicely, it was – man, you already know, me and Run all the time say, you already know, once we was little, rising up and – you already know, except you was the star of the basketball crew, the highschool basketball crew or the CYO basketball crew or the neighborhood Hollis basketball crew, not one of the homeboys or the homegirls would offer you any consideration. And me and Run all the time stated, all we wish is one pair of Adidas, however our dad and mom would not purchase us Adidas ‘trigger it was $40. It was, like, ridiculous to our dad and mom, you already know what I am saying? They’re center class. What is the level of you – no, we will purchase you these $25 sneakers, $20 shoe. If we may get them for 15, you are carrying these, and you are going to be glad. After which once we turned Run-D.M.C., we may purchase all of the Adidas we wished – all Adidas sneakers we wished. We may purchase all of the gold chains that we wish. We may go purchase the Cadillac that we wished. And it was, like, simply ridiculous. It was like God blessed us with every little thing that we wished once we was, you already know, rising up in elementary faculty.

You understand, we was at a degree the place you wish to be like that man who acquired each shade pair of Adidas. And also you need – you already know, most – you already know, you would inform the children, plenty of the children that was going to my faculty, that they had jobs. You understand what I am saying? And, you already know, we did not don’t have any jobs. The one job me and Run ever had was pushing purchasing carts for the grocery store, giving out circulars. And that was, like, twice – you already know, twice every week. However most of our pals, that they had nine-to-fives, and so they was on the market, you already know, working and getting some huge cash. So each month, if one thing new got here out, they may get it. So once we acquired cash, it turned we may get something and every little thing. As a matter of truth, we had stuff earlier than it even got here out ‘trigger folks began giving us stuff.

GROSS: So that you simply began buying every little thing you would?

MCDANIELS: Yeah, precisely. All the pieces that we ever wished, we was capable of get.

GROSS: Nicely, you already know, you talked about Adidas, and naturally, you may have a really well-known file known as “My Adidas.” Earlier than we hear it, why do not you say just a little bit about developing with this rap?

MCDANIELS: Nicely, it is actual humorous, really. Run’s brother, Russell Simmons, got here up with the thought. He, like, put it within the air. Someday, he stated, y’all have to make a file about your Adidas and the way y’all come from Hollis. After which the following day, you already know me and Run, we had the pen and pad out, and we was scripting this file. So we did the file even earlier than we was approached by Adidas to – you already know, for the promotional deal and stuff like that for the endorsement. And the file got here out. After which in 1986, you already know, we was actually the largest factor occurring in music. And an Adidas consultant got here to Madison Sq. Backyard, and on that present, “Adidas” was the primary file that we did. And earlier than we did it, we stated, whoever acquired on Adidas, take one shoe off and maintain it up. And the entire Madison Sq. Backyard held up a pair – held up their Adidas. And when the Adidas consultant seen this, he was like, y’all guys acquired an endorsement. It will be huge. You are going to be the primary non-athletic group to get a significant endorsement with an athletic firm. And that was, like, actually cool. However we made the file as a result of we all the time simply rapped about something and every little thing. And we simply gave a tribute to our Adidas, saying we’ll put on these sneakers for all times, no matter. We do not care about Nike. We do not care about Bally. We do not care about nothing. Adidas are it endlessly.

GROSS: Darryl McDaniels is the co-founder of Run-D.M.C. Here is “My Adidas.”

(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, “MY ADIDAS”)

RUN-DMC: (Rapping) My Adidas stroll by way of live performance doorways and roam throughout coliseum flooring. I stepped on stage at Dwell Help, all of the folks gave and the poor acquired paid. And out of audio system I did converse. I wore my sneakers however I am not a sneak. My Adidas contact the sand of a overseas land. With mic in hand, I chilly took command. My Adidas and me shut as may be. We make a imply crew, my Adidas and me. We get round collectively, we’re down endlessly. And we can’t be mad when caught in unhealthy climate. My Adidas. My Adidas. Yo, what’s up? My Adidas, standing on 2 Fifth avenue, funky contemporary and, sure, chilly on my ft, with no shoestring in them. I didn’t win them. I purchased them off the ave’ with the black Lee denim. I prefer to sport them, that is why I introduced them. A sucker tried to steal them, so I caught them and I fought them. And I stroll down the road and bop to the beat with Lee on my legs and Adidas on my ft. And so now I am simply standing right here, capturing the gip, me and D and my Adidas standing on 2 Fifth. My Adidas.

GROSS: We’re listening to my 1997 interview with Darryl McDaniels of Run-D.M.C. We’ll hear extra after a break. That is FRESH AIR.

(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, “IT’S TRICKY”)

RUN-DMC: (Rapping) It is difficult. It is difficult, difficult, difficult, difficult, huh. Once I get up, folks take up largely all of my time. I am not singing – cellphone maintain ringing ‘trigger I make up a rhyme. I am not bragging. Folks nagging…

GROSS: That is FRESH AIR. Let’s get again to my 1997 interview with Darryl McDaniels of Run-D.M.C., one of many early rap teams to interrupt into the mainstream. After we left off, we had been speaking about the best way the group dressed, with its gold chains and Adidas sneakers, and the impression it made on their followers and the way they dressed.

Now, how did it really feel to see so lots of your followers copying you? I imply, on the one hand, it will possibly make you’re feeling actually, you already know, proud and massive and every little thing. Then again, it will possibly actually make you surprise in regards to the unbiased considering (laughter) of individuals.

MCDANIELS: Yeah, properly, really, you already know, my associate, Run, he was extra enthusiastic about that. Like, wow, D – yo, look; we’re huge, you already know what I am saying? And, you already know, from a file promoting tip, you already know, it’ signified that, oh, wow, we’re doing actually nice.

GROSS: Proper.

MCDANIELS: However then on one other tip, you already know, I used to be, like, form of bugged. I appreciated it when rap was extra – all people was extra themselves however all of us may relate to the music, you already know what I am saying? And now, I imply, the identical means that folks did that once we had Adidas out is similar means persons are doing – the followers are treating, you already know, Tupac data and Biggie data and Snoop Dogg data. They’re taking plenty of stuff these rappers are saying severely. Like, again then, for those who had a pair of Adidas and also you had a Adidas swimsuit and a giant gold chain and a hat or perhaps the glasses, you already know, the CAZAL glasses like I used to put on, you was down with rap and hip-hop.

Now you bought to have a gat, which is a gun. And you bought to smack, you already know, your h** or your b****. Excuse my language, however you bought to smack her. And you bought to have all these girls. And you bought to have a automotive. And you bought to have this tough picture, you already know what I am saying? You bought to drink champagne and smoke blunts and spend all this cash. So the identical factor, the identical impact that we had on the followers again then is similar means rap is affecting the followers now, however it’s not in a optimistic means.

And, you already know, plenty of the teams that is out now – like, it shocked me and it made me really feel good when Martin Lawrence, who’s a comic, Chris Rock, who’s a comic, you already know, on the two instances that I met them, they got here as much as me and stated, D, due to Run-D.M.C., I’m what I’m at this time. In order that’s good as a result of they did not wish to be a rapper like D.M.C. and costume like me. However we impressed them to be what they wished to be. They checked out us and stated, I can do what I wish to be. And it actually hit me when Boyz II Males – on the Grammys, Boyz II Males got here as much as me and stated, we’re doing this due to y’all, you already know what I am saying?

I am like, wow, you already know, that is the kind of impact I wish to have. I do not need all people making an attempt to be Run-D.M.C., you already know? And it is unhealthy if all people’s making an attempt to be Tupac or all people’s making an attempt to be Biggie. What these guys do characterize is, out of the hood, out of poverty or out of crime or out of a single-parent house or popping out of jail, you may be one thing. And that is what’s good to characterize. However you do not acquired to be the identical gun-toting, reefer-smoking, champagne-drinking particular person as this rapper is. And that is complicated to the dad and mom as a result of the dad and mom get scared. OK, my son likes Tupac, however that is what Tupac did final week. I do not need my son to do this.

GROSS: Was there ever any strain on you from producers or file corporations to harden your picture, to make it extra hardcore?

MCDANIELS: No, however we felt a strain on ourselves in 1990. We made an album known as “Again From Hell.” And on this “Again From Hell” album, it was, like, the primary time the place we ever actually used profanity. And it was, like, the primary album the place we ever actually got here at all people else within the business. It was, you already know, the primary album the place we form of degraded girls. You understand, we did not actually speak unhealthy like most data did, however we began speaking – we began, you already know, straying that means. And that was, like, certainly one of our worst albums, so we realized a giant lesson from that.

I imply, that album was like a flop for Run-D.M.C. It solely bought perhaps 250,000 copies. That was the yr all people was saying Run-D.M.C. was over – you already know what I am saying? – as a result of we strayed from what we was actually about. Although we had been nonetheless doing stay reveals, we made this album which was making an attempt to float of the instances when retaining it actual is being actual to your self and staying who you’re.

GROSS: We’ll hear extra of my dialog with Darryl McDaniels of Run-D.M.C. after a break. And we’ll proceed our celebration of hip-hop’s fiftieth anniversary with LL Cool J. Here is one other observe from Run-D.M.C. That is “It is Difficult.” I am Terry Gross, and that is FRESH AIR.

(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, “IT’S TRICKY”)

RUN-DMC: (Rapping) This speech is my recital. I believe it’s extremely important to rock a rhyme that is proper on time “It is Difficult” is the title. Right here we go. It is difficult to rock a rhyme, to rock a rhyme that is proper on time. It is Difficult. It is difficult, difficult, difficult, difficult. It is difficult to rock a rhyme, to rock a rhyme that is proper on time. It is Difficult. Difficult, difficult, difficult. I met this little girlie. Her hair was form of curly – went to her home and bust her out. I needed to depart actual early. These women are actually sleazy, all they simply say is please me, or spend a while and rock a rhyme, I stated it is not that simple. It is difficult to rock a rhyme, to rock a rhyme that is proper on time. It is difficult. How is it, D? It is difficult, difficult, difficult, difficult. It is difficult to rock a rhyme, to rock a rhyme that is proper on time. It is Difficult.

(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, “GIVE IT UP OR TURNIT A LOOSE”)

JAMES BROWN: (Singing) Yeow. Child, give it up or flip it free. And. Child, give it up or flip it free. Beginning over once more. Child, give it up or flip it free. Child, give it up or flip it free. All proper. Child, give it up.

GROSS: That is FRESH AIR. I am Terry Gross. This week, we’re celebrating hip-hop’s fiftieth anniversary by listening again to interviews from our archive with a few of hip hop’s groundbreaking performers. Let’s get again to my 1997 interview with Darryl McDaniels of Run-D.M.C., certainly one of rap’s early teams to interrupt into the mainstream. The Run in Run-D.M.C. is Reverend Joseph “Run” Simmons, whose brother is Russell Simmons. Run-D.M.C.’s DJ Jam Grasp Jay was shot and killed in a recording studio in Queens, N.Y., in 2002.

(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED NPR BROADCAST)

GROSS: Now, I do know that you just’re Christian. Was there, like, a change in your life the place you had been born once more or form of…

MCDANIELS: Yeah. Proper round that point, I imply, you already know, the data wasn’t promoting. Everyone was saying we was over. You understand, Run was smoking plenty of reefer. I used to be ingesting plenty of beer. Issues wasn’t properly inside the group. You understand, folks was, like, saying, you already know, Run-D.M.C. is over. You understand, their time is over. And it was, like, actually a down time. And, you already know, with anyone, when it is time to – properly, not time. If you find yourself down and out in your deathbed, each – I do not care who you’re. You going to scream out to God, you already know? And he will reply, and it is up so that you can reply his calling.

And, you already know, principally, it was nowhere else we may flip however to God. You understand, God assist us. You understand, and we was like, yo, we’re very grateful for every little thing that occurred and this and that. And if solely we may, you already know, simply get, you already know – get again to what we was all about. However we needed to make that adjustment in our minds ourselves. You understand what I am saying? However it was, like, actually a down time. I imply, the ladies – it was just like the worst time for Run-D.M.C. of intercourse, medication and rock ‘n’ roll, you already know, all that stuff that you just assume, after I’m not going to go that means. That not going to occur to us. And it was, like, actually a foul time for us.

GROSS: And so once you had been born once more, how did that change your music and your way of life?

MCDANIELS: Nicely, you already know, it cleaned up our lives. We stopped smoking reefer, stopped ingesting beer, cease sleeping with each – you already know, each groupie that you already know and stopped working round with the drug sellers and the mistaken crowd. And, you already know, that is why we named the file “Down With The King” as a result of we stated, wow, we’re the one rap group that is been right here for – you already know, on the time we was out for 10 years. We’re the one rap group that is been collectively for 10 years. Everyone else within the enterprise broke up. And we realized that we had a wedding right here. I imply, it was like, you already know, that is actually like a wedding as a result of we’re nonetheless right here. Although our recognition was down, folks nonetheless gave us respect. So we was like, all proper, we will dedicate certainly one of these data on this album to God. And that was – that file turned the one, and that single turned the identify of the album.

GROSS: “Down With The King.”

MCDANIELS: “Down With The King.”

GROSS: Why do not we hear that?

MCDANIELS: OK.

(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, “DOWN WITH THE KING”)

MCDANIELS: (Rapping) I am takin’ the excursions. I am wreckin’ the land. I maintain it hardcore as a result of it is dope, man. These are the roughest, hardest phrases I ever wrote down. Not meant for a ho like a gradual jam. Verify it. Sucka MCs may by no means swing with D due to all of the issues that I carry with me. Solely G-O-D could possibly be a king to me. And if the G-O-D be in me, then a king I be. The microphone is branded when it is handed to me. I used to be planted on this planet, and I plan to MC. The MC fiends solely appear to agree that I rock all of the world and the society. Outrageous on the phases with a tune of verse. I give praises from these pages to the universe. My voice is uncooked. My lyrics is legislation. I maintain it hardcore such as you by no means noticed.

You wanna be down with the king, the king. You wanna be down with the king, the king. You understand you wanna be down with the king, the king. You wanna wanna wanna wanna be down with the king, the king. You understand you wanna wanna be down with the king.

GROSS: The group has been collectively – properly, you have been recording since – what? – 1982…

MCDANIELS: Yeah.

GROSS: …And began performing even earlier than that.

MCDANIELS: Yeah.

GROSS: Terribly lengthy, I imply, for any group however significantly, I believe, on the earth of rap.

MCDANIELS: Yeah, it is ridiculous.

GROSS: How do you assume you managed to remain collectively that lengthy?

MCDANIELS: Wow. That is actually a very good query. The rationale why we stayed collectively that lengthy as a result of we by no means let the fortune and fame take away from the true artwork type of what rapping and MCing means to us, that means that if we by no means made it as Run-D.M.C. – and Run – when he was going to varsity, he was finding out mortuary science. I used to be finding out enterprise administration. However then I’d’ve needed to change as a result of I wished to enter structure. And Jay was finding out enterprise administration. So even when we had spouse and children, working 9 to 5s with households, on the weekends, on holidays, on days off, we going to get collectively within the park at Jay’s birthday celebration, at our son’s birthday celebration. And we will DJ and rap and scratch. So we by no means misplaced that need of – we by no means let the rap turn into a factor as we acquired to get cash with this factor. We all the time like actually doing it. We all the time like actually doing a stay present. And we all the time like, you already know, making enjoyable lyrics or making lyrics that imply one thing. We by no means let the fortune take away from the artwork type or the that means of, you already know, the tradition of hip-hop. What hip-hop actually stands for.

GROSS: Lots of rap teams actually brag about their neighborhood, typically bragging about how robust it’s.

MCDANIELS: Yeah.

GROSS: What was your neighborhood like? Hollis, Queens.

MCDANIELS: Oh, Hollis, Queens was – you already know, it was a middle-class, hard-working neighborhood. It had plenty of educated folks there. However you additionally had, you already know, violence and medicines and prostitution and homicide and rape and theft proper on the nook. You understand, it simply good that we got here from good households who made certain we went to highschool, did not play hooky or run with the mistaken crowd. So that you had good and unhealthy occurring on the identical time, which is true for each neighborhood. However some locations have extra poverty than different locations. And folks are inclined to let their environment suppress them. It was like we all the time, no matter what occurring, if we did not have a greenback in our pocket or if we did have the greenback within the pocket, we had been nonetheless glad. You understand what I am saying?

GROSS: Now, did you ever really feel such as you needed to cowl up the truth that your neighborhood was fairly center class and that your dad and mom would not allow you to play hooky?

MCDANIELS: No, it was no means we may conceal it as a result of that was one thing the reporters made recognized to all people, you already know, ‘trigger they thought it was a giant factor. All proper. Right here you bought this rap group making all this cash, working round, speaking about their automobiles and, you already know, how good they’re. And, you already know, they’re promoting plenty of data. And, you already know, it was a factor the place rap was speculated to be solely performed by, you already know, folks from the ghetto. You understand what I am saying? As a result of, you already know, Grandmaster Flash and them – they got here from the guts of the Bronx. And Afrika Bambaataa – they was from Bronx and Manhattan. They was from the ghetto. You understand what I am saying? Condominium buildings and damaged glass all over the place. Folks’s at subway.

We got here from Hollis, Queens, the place you bought separate homes, grass, backyards, cookout, Catholic faculty and all this different stuff occurring. However, you already know, we wished folks to know, you already know, my mom and father, Jay’s mom and father and Run’s – hard-working, educated folks. However then you definately had the those who, you already know, lived in the course of the block. You understand, they needed to rob and steal for his or her subsequent meal. However plenty of the press wished to emphasise – I assume they wished to let the world know that these guys are fronting. They may look robust, and so they may speak robust on their file, however they’re center class, Catholic faculty, good guys.

GROSS: Nicely, I wish to thanks a lot for speaking with us. We’re out of time. I want we weren’t, however we acquired to go (laughter). So…

MCDANIELS: Nicely, thanks for having me.

GROSS: Yeah, thanks so much for speaking with us. I actually recognize it.

MCDANIELS: It was my pleasure.

GROSS: Darryl McDaniels of Run-D.M.C., recorded in 1997. Developing – LL Cool J, one other of the early rappers to attain business success. That is FRESH AIR.

(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, “INTRODUCTION TO THE JB’S/DOING IT TO DEATH”)

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