TERRY GROSS, HOST:

That is FRESH AIR. I am Terry Gross. This week we’re celebrating hip-hop’s fiftieth anniversary by that includes interviews from our archive with performers who maintain a big place in that historical past. In the present day two teams identified for his or her revolutionary sampling and good, intelligent lyrics – De La Soul and the Beastie Boys. We’ll begin with De La Soul.

(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, “ME MYSELF AND I”)

DE LA SOUL: (Rapping) Mirror, mirror on the wall. Inform me, mirror. What’s mistaken? Can or not it’s my de la garments? Or is it simply my De La Soul? What I do ain’t make-believe. Folks say I sit and take a look at. However with regards to being De La, it is simply me, myself and I. It is simply me, myself and I. It is simply me, myself and I. It is simply me, myself and I.

GROSS: De La Soul made its debut in 1989 with the album “3 Toes Excessive And Rising,” which went towards the grain of more durable rap that was outstanding on the time. The album was not solely enjoyable, it was humorous. It sampled a variety of music, from Liberace to Steely Dan to George Clinton, and it helped launch what was referred to as the Native Tongues motion, a collective of hip-hop artists identified for constructive, playful lyrics and an absence of posturing. The founding members of De La Soul had been David Jolicoeur, or Dave, in any other case referred to as Trugoy the Dove; Vincent Mason, referred to as Mase; and Kelvin Mercer, referred to as Pos or Posdnuos. The group shaped once they had been in highschool in Amityville, Lengthy Island, and had been found by DJ and producer Prince Paul. Their album “3 Toes Excessive And Rising” is within the Library of Congress’ Nationwide Recording Registry.

However regardless of their affect, their music had been unavailable for years due to authorized points having to do with their file firm and sampling. This yr they obtained the rights to their grasp recordings and now you’ll be able to stream and obtain their music. However sadly, Dave Jolicoeur died in February on the age of 54, simply earlier than their music grew to become obtainable. In 2000, I spoke to Dave and Mase after the discharge of their album “Artwork Official Intelligence.”

(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED NPR BROADCAST)

GROSS: Dave, Mase, welcome to FRESH AIR.

DAVE: Thanks for having us.

MASE: Thanks for having us.

GROSS: Let me play one thing from the primary De La Soul file, “3 Toes Excessive And Rising.” And on this CD, you pay tribute to a kind of children music I think about you grew up with, which is “Multiplication Rock.” And so that is – this sort of takes off from there. Let’s hear it. That is “Three Is The Magic Quantity” (ph).

(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, “THE MAGIC NUMBER”)

DE LA SOUL: (Singing) Three. That is the magic quantity. Sure, it’s. It is the magic quantity. Someplace on this hip-hop soul neighborhood was born three – Mase, Dove and me. And that is the magic quantity. Tough preaching is Posdnuos’ pleasure. Pleasure and preaching begins within the coronary heart. One thing that stimulates the music within the measure. Measure within the music, raised in three components. Casually see however do not do just like the soul ‘trigger seeing and doing are actions for monkeys. Doing hip-hop hustle, no rock ‘n’ roll, except your title’s Brewster, ‘trigger Brewster’s a punk.

Mother and father, let go ‘trigger there’s magic within the air. Criticizing rap exhibits – you are out of order. Cease, look, and hearken to the phrase, you Fred Astaires. And do not get offended whereas Mase do-si-do’s your daughter. A tri-camera rolls since our music’s now set. Fly rhymes are saved on a D.A.I.S.Y. manufacturing. It stands for Da Interior Sound, Y’all, and y’all can wager that the motion’s not a trick, however exhibiting the perform. Everyone needs to be a DJ. Everyone needs to be an MC. However being audio system are the very best, and you do not have to guess. De La Soul posse consists of three, and that is the magic quantity.

This right here piece of the pie shouldn’t be dessert however the course that we dine. And three out of each darn time, the impact is mmm (ph) when a daisy grows in your thoughts. Displaying true place, this right here piece is kissing the a part of the pie that is lacking when that destructive quantity fills up the casualty. Perhaps you’ll be able to subtract it. You’ll be able to name it your fortunate companion. Perhaps you’ll be able to name it your adjective. However odd as it might be, with out my one and two, the place would there be my three – Mase, Pos and me? And that is the magic quantity. Focus is shaped by flaunts to the soul…

GROSS: That is from De La Soul’s first CD. It was actually refreshing, I believe, to listen to rap that was ironic and actually playful. And I am questioning if you happen to had been virtually afraid to do this then as a result of it was so completely different from the type of extra hardcore rap that took itself actually severely about how good the rapper was in mattress or on the road or on the microphone.

MASE: No, we weren’t afraid. I imply, that is actually the place we come from. That is what we knew. So…

DAVE: Yeah.

MASE: …That is what we knew to implement in our music.

DAVE: It was an innocence. We paid no thoughts to what was occurring on round us. I imply, you recognize, the those who we admired and regarded as much as had been the Run-DMCs and the Public Enemys and the…

MASE: LL Cool Js.

DAVE: …LL Cool Js and KRS-Ones. And, you recognize, none of those teams sound something alike. You understand, everybody was doing their very own factor. So to step into the sport and even attempt to introduce our recreation – ourselves to the sport was, like, OK, properly, we’re bringing our personal factor to gentle additionally. And there was an innocence there that, you recognize, paid no consideration to fads, what was in, you recognize, what was promoting and what was not and what wasn’t. It was simply, you recognize, a few youngsters simply getting collectively and having a great time and giving a product to an organization that had greater plans for it, you recognize? And that is the place it was with us. So, I imply, to take a seat again and actually analyze the scenario and say, wow, are we going to make it? Is that this going to be accepted or what have you ever? That was no concern of ours.

GROSS: What is the vary of reactions you bought to that first CD, which was crammed with humor and irony and – we’ll get to this later – with samples from simply every kind of various music?

DAVE: Folks beloved what we did. I imply, I’ve to truthfully say that is my favourite and possibly would be the greatest album that I felt like we have ever carried out. Like I stated, there weren’t any boundaries. We had been just a few younger youngsters having a great time, and folks revered it for that. It was like, wow, these guys aren’t, you recognize, afraid to offer themselves 100%. Whether or not you thought it was infantile, whether or not you thought it was humorous or whether or not you thought it was ingenious, it was simply – individuals accepted it. Folks was like, wow, I all the time wished to do one thing like that, however I simply was afraid to place it, you recognize, on tape. I all the time wished to pattern that, however I did not assume it could work.

And it was all the time good to listen to, you recognize, the hardest of the powerful, you recognize, the gangsters, you recognize, somebody like a KRS-One at our first launch occasion simply praising us like, wow, De La Soul, you guys are unbelievable. That is loopy. Or DMC from Run-DMC having to get to our first present that we ever did was like, yo, I obtained to be right here entrance row. I obtained to be proper within the entrance. It was good to see these those who, you recognize, went out and purchased information for years simply loving what we did. It was glorious.

GROSS: Did you assume something was misinterpreted?

MASE: I believe the one factor that perhaps was misinterpreted that folks saved classifying us to be hippies, you recognize, once we did not actually have an understanding of what that was all about. It was cool…

GROSS: I ponder how a lot of that simply got here from the design on the album jacket?

DAVE: Yeah.

GROSS: It had, like, daisies on it.

MASE: And yeah, it got here from the design.

DAVE: Yeah, individuals misinterpreted the look, you recognize? I imply, I believe individuals thought that we had been going out making an attempt to promote ourselves as, you recognize, this fun-loving, you recognize, ’60s hip-hop group. And I used to be born within the late ’60s. I knew nothing about, you recognize…

MASE: I am a ’70s child myself (laughter).

DAVE: I believe that is the one factor that type of, like, obtained at us was like, you recognize, when it got here right down to publicity and promoting the file, individuals all the time wished us to take photos with flowers and be sure you put on yellow and lime inexperienced. And, you recognize, it was like, you recognize, properly, I need to put on brown right now, you recognize? So it was that type of a factor that was type of a bit annoying.

GROSS: The samples on that first CD included Steely Dan, Liberace, Otis Redding, The Jarmels, who did “A Little Bit Of Cleaning soap.” “Stand By Me,” I believe is sampled on it, the Ben E. King file. There is a French language instruction file. How do you know all these information?

MASE: Mother and father’ file collections.

DAVE: Yeah.

MASE: That is actually what it was. I imply, I used to be type of hung up within the funk period and reggae period with my dad and mom and my uncles and stuff. And…

DAVE: And my dad and mom had been listening to Perry Como, Liberace…

GROSS: Actually (laughter)?

DAVE: …Sammy Davis Jr. and, you recognize, stuff like that. And…

MASE: And Pos’ dad and mom have an actual robust Southern background.

DAVE: Yeah.

MASE: So that they listened to a whole lot of Otis Redding…

DAVE: Redding and – yeah.

MASE: …You understand, a whole lot of the stuff that was on this widespread station referred to as ABC again within the day.

GROSS: Oh, dwelling of the great guys. Yeah. Proper.

MASE: Yeah.

DAVE: Yeah.

MASE: Effectively, we obtained, you recognize…

DAVE: After which, after all, Prince Paul, who collected stuff like “Multiplication Rock”…

MASE: Rock.

DAVE: …And the “Mickey Mouse” information and, you recognize, all kinds of kiddie information like that. So simply, you recognize, everyone bringing their power into it made “3 Toes Excessive And Rising” what it was.

GROSS: So these are all information that you simply actually appreciated, even if you happen to like a few of them for being actually unhealthy, I imply, for simply actually being so terrible that they had been enjoyable?

DAVE: Oh, yeah. I imply, you are all the time going to search out one thing. You understand, it is not each file. I imply, there are a whole lot of information which can be in our crates that, you recognize, are simply, like, you recognize, only for one factor. However that one factor makes it particular. And that Liberace file…

GROSS: Yeah.

DAVE: …I am not going to take a seat right here and say that I hearken to Liberace all day, however, you recognize. In order that introduction was simply unbelievable, you recognize? And that labored for De La Soul. It was like, you recognize, that needed to go on the file.

GROSS: I believe we might higher hear the Liberace pattern.

DAVE: All proper.

(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, “PLUG TUNIN’ (LAST CHANCE TO COMPREHEND)”)

LIBERACE: And now for my subsequent quantity, I would wish to return to the classics – maybe essentially the most well-known basic in all of the world of music.

DE LA SOUL: (Rapping) The primary time round, you did not fairly perceive our new fashion of converse. Don’t fret. We will repair that proper now. So why do not you all simply seize your luggage. Come on aboard, hoist the anchor and we’ll be off. Plug One. Plug One.

GROSS: That is from De La Soul’s first CD, “3 Toes Excessive And Rising.” My company are two of the three members of the group – Dave and Mase. They usually have a brand new CD, which is named “Artwork Official Intelligence.” So while you began sampling, I am questioning if you happen to began searching for information otherwise than you ever did earlier than, simply searching for cool issues to place by yourself information?

DAVE: What’s so humorous – the tactic of buying information was type of, like, actually completely different. I imply, it is like that for lots of hip-hop artists. We typically are clueless of the artist and what music they play and what devices or what sort of music it’s. Generally we simply – we’re taking a look at a few issues. We’re wanting on the yr. We’re taking a look at what devices are being performed. We’re wanting on the font on the file. If it appears prefer it’s psychedelic, which may have one thing completely different. If it appears jazzy, it’d – you recognize, we’re taking a look at a whole lot of different issues greater than who the musician is and what the songs are, you recognize? It is humorous how we store for information. It truly is. It is – you recognize, you are searching for sure labels. Like I stated, you are searching for the font on the album cowl, and also you’re searching for the yr.

GROSS: Do you principally go to used file shops and search for vinyl, or do you employ CDs for sampling, too?

MASE: I personally search for vinyl as a result of the truth that I am a DJ and I extremely assist vinyl. And when I’m DJing, I wish to put a whole lot of obscure scratches into what I am doing typically, not to mention taking part in a few of these previous information – you recognize, a few of these previous information that I have been searching for, like a King Floyd file or Otis Redding file that I might like to play in a celebration, like, to play at a sure break in a celebration or one thing like that after which go into my subsequent tune. So I am extremely supportive of buying vinyl. It is only a DJ factor.

DAVE: It’s. I believe simply, you recognize, seeing what number of a lot – how rather more information you’ll be able to simply load into that storage that is already wanting like some kind of…

MASE: A file retailer (laughter).

DAVE: Yeah. A file junkyard.

MASE: Yeah.

DAVE: You understand, it is simply – it is all the time a great feeling, additionally, to simply crack that new plastic after which put one thing on that turntable and hope that you simply discover essentially the most unbelievable, you recognize, horn part or a drum loop or – it is simply thrilling.

GROSS: Now, after your first CD, you had been sued by The Turtles for sampling one thing from one in all their information. What was the result of the go well with?

DAVE: It was settled.

MASE: Settled out of court docket.

DAVE: It was settled out of court docket. Sadly, what occurred was the file “3 Toes Excessive And Rising” was – there was a requirement for it, and the frenzy was there to get it in shops. And, you recognize, we turned in all pattern info and what we sampled and what we wanted cleared. And sadly, the file label simply did not take its day out to – you recognize, to hash out all enterprise previous to placing the file out. So the pattern clearance factor by no means occurred. And the file clearly took off. And rightfully, you recognize, The Turtles got here again and, you recognize, sued us for, you recognize, not clearing the samples. That is fantastic. That was cool. However we did settle it out of court docket, and all is properly.

GROSS: What influence do you assume that go well with had on different rappers?

DAVE: It had an influence on rap as an entire, I believe – you recognize, ourselves and the entire Biz Markie go well with when his album obtained pulled off the cabinets. You understand, these days you bought to clear samples. I imply…

MASE: Sampling is huge enterprise now.

DAVE: Yeah, it is…

GROSS: Proper.

DAVE: …Enormous. And we had been a small a part of that. I imply, however one thing that we all the time revered, I imply, even earlier than the sampling legal guidelines got here out and as strict as they’re now – you recognize, like I stated, “3 Toes Excessive And Rising” file, we tried to clear as a lot as we might.

GROSS: We’re listening to my interview with Dave and Mase from the group De La Soul. I spoke to them in 2000. We’ll hear extra of the interview after a break. That is FRESH AIR.

(SOUNDBITE OF DE LA SOUL SONG, “CHANGE IN SPEAK”)

GROSS: That is FRESH AIR. Let’s get again to the interview I recorded in 2000 with two members of De La Soul – Dave, who died earlier this yr, and Mase. This is one other monitor from “3 Toes Excessive And Rising,” their first album, which was launched in 1989.

(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, “EYE KNOW”)

DE LA SOUL: (Rapping) Greetings, lady, and welcome to my world of phrase. I am proper as much as bat. It is a D.A.I.S.Y. age, and also you’re about to stroll prime stage. So wipe your Lottos on the map. Hip-hop love that is, and do not thoughts once I quiz your involvements earlier than the solar. However clear your court docket ‘trigger this a one-man sport. And who’s higher for this than Plug One? Now you do not have to fret about me squashing different offers ‘trigger they’ve already been squished. Freeze a body about moods the identical which we are able to proceed proper behind the bush. You will stick with me. I do know this however not due to all my Earthly treasures or regardless to the truth that I am Posdnuos however as a result of I do know I really like you higher.

GROSS: How do you assume your experiences rising up in Amityville, Lengthy Island, which is a suburb of New York, in comparison with the experiences of some city rappers who ended up doing extra, you recognize, hardcore type of raps?

DAVE: It is a completely different upbringing. I imply, Lengthy Island and particularly Amityville gave us the chance to not be round perhaps all of the internal metropolis components, you recognize, schoolyard and, you recognize…

MASE: And that was simply again then.

DAVE: Yeah.

MASE: These days, Lengthy Island shouldn’t be that a lot completely different from the internal metropolis.

DAVE: Yeah, it is not that a lot completely different. However, you recognize, whether or not you are coping with, you recognize, the following particular person on prime of you in initiatives and, you recognize, it is overcrowded or what have you ever, you recognize, we – you recognize, you had a single-family dwelling, your personal bed room, a giant yard to play in. And, you recognize, you probably did issues like went to Tanner Park and went fishing. Or, you recognize, you…

MASE: It is simply room to be a person in Lengthy Island.

DAVE: Yeah, room to breathe, room to get to see various things, you recognize, exit east and go on pony rides or, you recognize, go to the farm. Or, you recognize, you bought an opportunity to see various things. And your thoughts was open to new and various things, versus, you recognize, the children who had been simply – who simply obtained the park and that is it.

GROSS: Did you ever undergo a part of making an attempt to fake such as you had been from, you recognize, an internal metropolis background?

DAVE: No.

MASE: Effectively, myself and Dave each lived in Brooklyn at one time.

DAVE: Yeah, I imply, it was part of our lives regardless. We obtained the very best of each worlds, you recognize? We had the chance to see the dirty half and, you recognize, admire, you recognize, getting out of the hood, you recognize? You understand, a whole lot of rappers these days will symbolize the hood to the fullest. And I will be trustworthy, I do not need to symbolize the hood. I need to get out of the hood.

MASE: I need to get out the hood (laughter).

DAVE: So it is like, you recognize, we have seen the very best of each worlds. And I believe it is essential as a younger Black male to get to see each worlds as a result of you are going to need to be part of it in life regardless. You are going to be put in that place the place individuals assume that that is the place you are from anyway. So it is not an issue realizing it, and nor are we ashamed to be part of it. It is simply sickening while you hear those that act as if that is the very best place to be. I am pleased with being raised in Lengthy Island a part of my life.

MASE: I believe I am doing the neighborhood a service by getting out (laughter).

DAVE: Yeah, proper? And plus, on prime of that, I imply, now that we’re fathers, you recognize, Lengthy Island – Lengthy Island is cool. It isn’t the very best because it was. However it simply motivates me to know if my dad and mom obtained me out of Brooklyn, then I can get my youngsters out of Lengthy Island. And that is all it is doing for us and has carried out for us.

GROSS: I am questioning if both of you had dad and mom who had been very political, and never essentially voting sales space politics, however simply when it comes to having a type of political, social evaluation of sophistication and race in America, and in the event that they talked to you a large number about that.

DAVE: I believe we grew up with dad and mom who simply, you recognize, had, you recognize, ethical spine. It was like, you recognize, I am not sending my child out on the street wanting any previous manner. I am not going to ship my child out within the streets or into college, you recognize, not realizing easy methods to converse. You understand, my dad and mom had been very strict. And, you recognize, if we obtained out of line, you recognize, we obtained handled additionally. And I – you recognize, it does not essentially take, you recognize, mother and pa within the family. Good instance is Mase. And it is like, you recognize, seeing how his mother was – and Ms. Mason raised us, myself, Pos, you recognize? It is like, you recognize, while you – once we weren’t at dwelling with our dad and mom, she was there ensuring that we had been so as, you recognize? So I might think about the way it went down in his home.

MASE: And I grew up in a single mother or father dwelling. You understand, I come from a whole lot of the battle that these rappers speak about. I have been on welfare. I’ve lived from home to accommodate. I lived in a one-bedroom house, placing milk on a windowsill. And, you recognize, no matter all of the trials and tribulations I have been via with my mother, my mom is my hero, you recognize? She struggled. And she or he struggled to actually present a great life for me and my brother. She did every part presumably beneath the solar to guarantee that we have had a fairly steady life, you recognize, working odd jobs in addition to having public help.

DAVE: Yeah. And typically it goes simply additional than simply placing meals on the desk. I imply, you recognize, after they put meals on the desk, they made certain that you simply held the fork the correct manner and, you recognize, you did not stuff your mouth like a…

MASE: Instilled these values in my head.

DAVE: Yeah. And people issues had been extra essential than, you recognize, her working a 12-hour shift or what have you ever, or my mother and my dad buying and selling up on shifts – and, you recognize, you babysit them, then, whereas I’m going and work. It is like, you recognize, a whole lot of issues – a whole lot of different issues had been essential to them, too. In order that’s type of what molded us to be the those who we’re right now.

GROSS: Effectively, I need to thanks each a lot for speaking with us.

DAVE: Thanks for having us.

GROSS: Dave and Mase of De La Soul recorded in 2000. Dave Jolicoeur died in February. The next month, De La Soul’s music lastly grew to become obtainable for streaming and obtain after authorized points had held it up. Arising, we’ll hear my 2006 interview with the Beastie Boys. I am Terry Gross, and that is FRESH AIR.

(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, “JENIFA TAUGHT ME (DERWIN’S REVENGE)”)

DE LA SOUL: (Rapping) Entry to her code. Love-struck was my mode. Took a glance, dropped my textbook – Jenifa, oh. Breakfast, broke it quick. She was in my English class. Requested for notes, rocked my boat – Jenifa, oh. Jenny misplaced her favourite penny, so I gave her a greenback. She kissed me and I hollered. In a flash, the college bell rang. Jenny grabbed onto my hand, took me dwelling and stated, Trugoy, simply swing and swing and swing.

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