Atwood Journal reconnected with Jacob Allen, the singer/songwriter, producer, and poet also referred to as Puma Blue, to speak about his deep love of music, how his connection to his mates altered his strategy to creating information, and what darkness means to him.

Stream: ‘Holy Waters’ – Puma Blue

Holy Waters, the most recent album from Puma Blue, was born from exploring the realms of elation and grief, life and loss of life.

Ever conversant in exploring shadows, within the time since releasing his first album, In Reward of Shadows, Jacob Allen, the inventive pressure behind Puma Blue, has realized to understand the sunshine simply as a lot because the darkish. Crediting his mates and bandmates in addition to his companion as being crucial issues in his life, it took the isolation of quarantine for him to place that feeling into perspective. Throughout that point his appreciation for the music they’ve made collectively solely grew stronger, which in the end led him to shift how he approached his artistry. Within the studio for his second album, Jacob Allen aspired to seize the alchemy of vitality and charisma made when he and his band would riff off each other. The ensuing album was impressed by and infused with the chemistry of their friendship.

In an effort to make a extra collaborative document, the members that make up Puma Blue (now seen in Allen’s eyes as a band as an alternative of a solo venture) determined to make a band-led stay album. The music made within the strategy of experimenting with their sound is a wedding of Puma Blue’s earlier laptop-produced nocturnal music to the improvisation-heavy stay performances the band has develop into identified for over time. Straying from his earlier approaches, Allen relied extra on his band of mates to assist make choices whereas recording. Now not bringing near-finished demos to his band for them to document; now complete songs got life within the studio from begin to end. Thus a brand new period of Puma Blue was born.

With progress got here a deeper understanding of the world round him. For Jacob Allen, that meant a deeper exploration into the darkness he has all the time been so comfy in. However just lately having to come back to phrases with loss of life gave Allen an entire new thought of what mild and darkness might be. Holy Waters is the proper instance of that progress, with Allen even saying, “Disappointment and darkness are vital issues; they don’t must be so dooming.”

Whereas his message stays the identical – “that there can’t be mild with out darkish” – Allen’s strategy to conveying it to listeners has shifted, equally embracing the sunshine and the darkish. Holy Waters is an album that’s as applicable to be blasted with the home windows down as it’s to be performed within the quiet of the night time. Its duality in theme and tone solely imply it by no means ceases from lingering in your thoughts.

Atwood Journal reconnected with Jacob Allen to speak about his deep love of music, how his connection to his mates altered his strategy to creating information, what darkness means to him, and his new album, Holy Waters, launched September 1st, 2023 through Blue Flowers.

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A CONVERSATION WITH PUMA BLUE

Atwood Journal: You talked about earlier than that the album cowl is a reference to Cocteau’s The Testomony of Orpheus, would you thoughts speaking concerning the inspiration behind that?

Jacob Allen: Certain, this can be a movie that my companion put me on to throughout the pandemic. I suppose what struck me was it was considerably of a loss of life scene for Cocteau himself, and these eyes are type of representing the cash on the eyes that they used to do at funerals. When it got here to deciding what this album ought to appear like after a lot of it was recorded, the primary factor that tied every little thing collectively was this type of theme of loss of life and that being each celebrated in some methods, like there are moments the place I really feel like I’m coming to a spot of accepting it and even making mild of it, after which there are different moments that really feel very painful. And this album cowl, this reference as properly, it felt like acceptance, it felt like a visible method of explaining – or simply exhibiting – that this wasn’t such a dismal message.

Initially, I used to be one thing a bit extra like the quilt of the Black Sabbath album, the unique one [Paranoid], one thing that will say ‘Dying’ immediately, that you’d simply get it with out me having to elucidate. However the extra I went down that path visually, the extra I noticed that was the flawed temper, it wasn’t the appropriate colour. So in the long run, I went with one thing actually colourful. And I felt the eyes: it was like capturing this second of virtually enlightenment, a type of within the face of loss of life simply sort of feeling at one with it and simply accepting it, and that being sort of this colourful second, somewhat than such a second of doom.

Talking of colour, I really feel like your music could be very colourful. Possibly as a result of it’s actually within the identify: ‘Puma Blue.’ However somebody requested you this in a earlier interview, so I assumed I’d do it once more. What would you say is the colour palette of this album?

Jacob Allen: Ooh attention-grabbing query, (pauses) I positively really feel like there’s a darkish orange. I really feel like orange is that this very inventive colour, and that is my most collaborative album up to now; I’ve actually concerned a band this time, which is one thing I’ve not likely completed earlier than. They’ve performed on a pair tunes right here and there, nevertheless it’s often simply me alone with a laptop computer. And this time, it was like a melting pot of all our influences, we had been simply so shut and intimate throughout the making of this album and actually there have been no flawed concepts. I really feel like our time within the studio felt very orange, very sort of bubbly, dusky sky orange. However there’s perhaps a pale blue or gray as properly. There’s a tinge of disappointment that runs via the document. I really feel like disappointment is even the flawed phrase; it’s not like melancholy or distress, it’s similar to a cathartic sigh and I really feel like that’s a really blue/blue-grey colour. We recorded it in Eastbourne in England, which is a really blue-grey place as properly. (laughs) Form of the ocean is all the time silver-looking.

So it’s sort of reflecting that space?

Jacob Allen: Yeah completely, however then all of the liner notes and the movies, they’re all in black and white as a result of I wished it to be this type of traditional factor occurring, so yeah there’s somewhat little bit of that noir palette as properly.

You talked about the way you concerned a stay band much more this time. What introduced you to try this, to make this massive shift in creating music?

Jacob Allen: Properly, we’ve all the time been actually good mates, we’ve all the time been actually shut. We did this tour proper earlier than the pandemic, within the US. It was like November 2019 and it was simply a number of the finest weeks of my life actually. There was one thing occurring in one of many band member’s private lives that was very tragic, so I feel in a wierd method, though the timing of this tour was sort of terrible, it was a really particular time to us, as mates. We had been simply actually sharing that grief collectively and going via it collectively. I feel having the ability to play music each single night time whereas a member of the band is grieving, it felt – I don’t know, you possibly can’t actually plan for that — it simply felt actually particular. And I got here off that tour feeling just like the band was, perhaps except for my companion, the type of smartest thing in my life; probably the most superb vessel and automobile for vitality and magic and alchemy. Then we had that complete yr following it the place I couldn’t see them or play with them. So naturally when it got here to engaged on album two, I felt like I had come round to pondering probably the most particular factor about Puma Blue was us as a four-piece somewhat than something I might do alone. It simply was actually vital to me to intensify the dimensions of the music as a lot as I might. The issues that they’ll simply do naturally — as a result of I encourage plenty of improvisation on stage — the type of natural moments that simply occur, you possibly can’t plan these when it’s simply you and taking part in all of the devices and doing it alone on a laptop computer. I simply actually wished to seize a few of these moments we had stay on a document. I hope that can come throughout when individuals hear; that it’s only a bit extra concerning the chemistry between us. I simply missed them loads throughout the pandemic, and I’d additionally been meditating loads earlier than on the concept of doing one thing a bit extra band-led. I feel as a result of I couldn’t for thus lengthy it simply type of felt prefer it needed to occur on this subsequent one.

I really feel like “Hounds” actually exhibits that, it feels very very similar to a full band sort of music, if that is sensible.

Jacob Allen: Thanks, that was the primary one I wrote for the album. And I actually simply introduced it to them as this very tough demo. So it was sort of the primary time that I heard the concept of doing a band document, it was the primary time that I felt that sort of come true. It was taking them this demo that sounded very very similar to my early stuff after which working it out collectively, like “how can we alter this from a demo into an album recording?” As soon as that music was completed, it was similar to “okay, this experiment is gonna work.” It was the music that helped flip the coin.

Yeah, was that a part of the rationale for it being the primary single?

Jacob Allen: Yeah it was. I simply wished to point out individuals what, in my thoughts, was probably the most instant model of the album, and that needed to be like this type of very first thing we did. After I was engaged on the combo with Sam Petts-Davies, who combined the document, we had this phrase that we might typically come again to. It wasn’t all the time applicable, however this concept of “first thought, finest thought” and typically your intestine is correct, you already know? You possibly can give it some thought and over-intellectualize it, however typically you must sort of go together with the factor that you simply noticed first, like your intestine intuition. I feel “Hounds” was a kind of. I wasn’t even positive if it was a music that will work below my umbrella of music. Or how it might work translating it with the band. Or whether or not it made sense as the primary single because it was sort of lengthy and – I hate this phrase – however like ‘rocky,’ I suppose ‘heavy’ is a greater phrase. However yeah, I simply felt like as quickly as I had that intestine considered “oh it needs to be Hounds,” I might give it some thought all I wished, however that was clearly the intestine intuition, in order that’s why we sort of went together with that one.

That is sensible, “Hounds” was simply sort of the primary every little thing! (laughs) The primary Holy Waters – “Hounds.”

Jacob Allen: Yeah the primary of every little thing, precisely.

I noticed in your artist bio that you simply guys had one other saying of “each component ought to sound just like the loudest component.” If you happen to wished to speak about that too? I feel that’s sort of an attention-grabbing strategy, and I really feel prefer it applies to “Hounds” too.

Jacob Allen: (laughs) Sure, thanks! That was the primary time we tried that technique, in order that’s humorous. It actually was the primary for every little thing. I had assistance on the second EP [Blood Loss], however I combined the primary EP [Swum Baby] myself, after which Marta Salogni combined the final album, and I used to be very pleased with them on the time. However I feel coming away from these three information I felt like one thing I might see, now that I had far, was one thing I’d treasured earlier than being subtly and being delicate. I had gone too far and truly there have been plenty of layers and a spotlight to element that I felt received misplaced within the mixes as a result of I used to be being so delicate. It was too delicate. Now, I hear again and it’s like I can’t actually hear all that stuff that I hung out engaged on, it’s sort of misplaced within the fog somewhat bit.

So when it got here to this document, I simply wished to sort of slap individuals within the face with it somewhat bit, and simply be actually daring. I’d been listening to music that was doing that somewhat bit extra, and after I was listening I used to be pondering, “God, all these paint strokes are very daring and putting, and even when one thing is delicate it’s making itself identified. It’s not whispering, it’s simply there within the distance, however clearly.” I didn’t wish to make one other document and get the band concerned and undergo all this effort of constructing one thing we actually cared about just for it to sort of get misplaced somewhat bit within the whispery, faint model of how I’d often determine to combine a document. So yeah, after I was working with Sam on the mixes, we simply had this concept of, “If one thing is there that may’t actually be heard, then we should always simply scrap it utterly. It’s clearly not vital, and if it can be crucial, then we should always be certain that it’s heard. And every little thing ought to nearly be — not combating to be heard — however every little thing ought to exist in equal significance.”

I didn’t wish to make a document that was overly compressed and squashed and all of the sounds had been combating one another, however I wished to make it possible for if one thing was going to occur it might take essential stage. It could be entrance and heart, and you’d discover it as a result of I feel plenty of my stuff earlier than has a lot element that nobody in all probability hears as a result of it’s so buried within the combine. So yeah, that was vital to me. I feel we utilized that even within the compositions: like if there was going to be an element then we had been like “let’s make that vital” somewhat than it simply being sort of somewhat aspect second. Does that make sense?

Yeah that completely is sensible. I really feel like even the songs that begin quiet and tender, construct as much as the tip. There’s all the time an enormous flourish on the finish. In order that sort of performs into the ‘loud component’ too, even when it’s tender, it would get loud later on.

Jacob Allen: Yeah, I’ve made plenty of stuff up to now that I might see – and to be honest I haven’t heard that criticism however I’m simply positive it’s on the market and we’re our personal largest critics anyway and that’s what’s vital for progress – however I might see my older stuff being construed as hushed. I feel fragility is superb however the thought of it being weak or frail, that bothers me as a result of fragility is definitely actually daring. However frailty: that’s the flawed impression. So I wished even the mild songs to really feel like in the event that they had been going to be fragile then they needed to be daring with it as a result of there’s a distinction. I feel with songs like “Epitaph” and “Gentle is Gone” I wanted to verify they felt vital, in any other case they might simply not make the document. There was no level on this album. I’ve completed a lot frail stuff over time it was similar to nothing will be that method in any other case I simply don’t assume it needs to be launched. It was vital to me that every little thing has an significance on the document.

Talking of ‘fragile’ sort of, “Fairly,” the music you launched just lately is like that. It’s fragile however not in a frail method, in a method that’s stronger. It’s very uncooked.

Jacob Allen: Thanks, yeah it got here from a uncooked place. It was a kind of songs the place as you had been writing it you had been type of like “properly that is simply the primary draft. It will probably’t be this clearly, I’ll have to alter it as a result of it’s too uncooked.” However then the extra you fuss and edit the lyrics, just like the extra I used to be sitting with it the extra I noticed once more it couldn’t be something however the first thought. And I had hung out on the lyrics in a craft-like method to verify they had been proper by way of the poetry of them. But in addition by way of the message and particularly the refrain: there have been like one million concepts I needed to change it to be one thing much less – to place me much less on the fucking guillotine – however then I simply thought “what can be the purpose?” And certainly the music that we connect with probably the most is at its rawest type once we perceive what the artist is saying to us as a result of we type of really feel it too. I simply thought I hadn’t heard anybody say that earlier than, so I wished to say it as a result of it felt true, and it felt such as you mentioned, it felt uncooked. I used to be fearful about placing myself on the market that a lot, however now that it’s on the market I really feel like that’s actually foolish and I’m glad that I simply did it.

And also you mentioned, in reference to “Fairly,” that you simply noticed it as a sister music to “Need Me,” appropriate? Do you wish to speak about that?

Jacob Allen: Yeah in fact. It wasn’t one thing that I instantly felt after I was writing on it, nevertheless it simply occurred in a short time as we had been engaged on the music. To start with, I’d written the guitar half like two or three years after I’d written “Need Me” so in my thoughts it’s from the identical time in a method, simply the instrumental aspect of it. So I used to be in the identical harmonic mindset after I wrote each songs. I used to be listening to plenty of jazz again then and I can hear that within the music; once we had been engaged on it, we had been going for one thing extra traditional sounding. However extra so I feel why I mentioned that was as a result of each songs come from a spot of rejection and feeling small. “Need Me” was a music about confessing emotions for somebody actually on a dance ground and never listening to the response you had been hoping for after which sort of going residence and sitting with that feeling and feeling like “shit I assumed I actually had an opportunity however now I notice that I by no means did.”

Whereas “Fairly” is nearly the flip aspect: The place it’s such as you’re already coming to the occasion with this sense of insecurity and smallness and feeling ugly – and unworthy is the phrase I’d use. However I feel what’s actually lovely about this music in comparison with “Need Me,” all these years later, discovering the lyrics now, is that the reply is you’re lovely, and I do love you. It’s a music about somebody making you’re feeling lovely regardless of your insecurities. Whereas “Need Me” is the opposite method round, it’s such as you arrive feeling like “certainly this individual desires me” after which they are saying they don’t and you must work that out. However this music, I’d prefer to assume I’m narratively coming away from it feeling higher, despite the fact that the final line is “you make me really feel so fairly and I’m not fairly in any respect,” I nonetheless really feel like that’s the gorgeous message behind it. It’s like I might be ugly, nevertheless it doesn’t actually matter while you’ve received this person who loves you in your life, that thinks you’re lovely as a result of it’s their perspective that issues on the finish of the day.

Yeah that’s actually fairly.

Jacob Allen: (laughs) Pun meant? That was actually clean.

(laughs) Oh no I wasn’t truly attempting to make a joke, however we are able to fake like I did. However talking of the songwriting a bit, we talked earlier than about how this album was extra collaborative along with your band. Did that strategy have an effect on the songwriting as properly, like with the lyrics or something?

Jacob Allen: Yeah somewhat bit. It was attention-grabbing, there have been some songs that we wrote utterly collectively, like “Too A lot, Too A lot” and “Gates (Wait For Me).” And “Epitaph” I wrote with one individual within the band. These songs got here out of jams. We sat down earlier than there was even an thought of what we should always do for the day and we might begin taking part in; these songs had been born from the jams we had been having. After which I’d go away and write the lyrics individually. However there are a few circumstances, like “Falling Down,” I had assist with the lyrics from my buddy Luke Bower, who’s like an unofficial member of the band, he used to play guitar with us, however we don’t actually have the additional guitar anymore. He was there once we had been engaged on the album within the studio, and he performed guitar on a number of the songs and stuff, and we had been all monitoring it stay. However then some songs like “Fairly” and “Hounds” which I discussed already, “Mirage” even, “Holy Waters,” I had written the music and recorded a demo, and I introduced it to the boys nearly saying “that is completed, proper? Let’s study this and play it.” However then via the method, these songs would develop into utterly totally different. “Mirage” for instance, I used to be gonna depart it off the album. I felt just like the lyrics had been vital to me — they usually nonetheless are — they usually felt like they occupied the appropriate house by way of what the album was about, however I didn’t like my demo, it was too grungy or one thing. I keep in mind pondering, “I don’t really want this music.” However we had this concept to type of flip the primary half of it right into a lullaby, which went with the music lyrics. Solely via that strategy of engaged on it with the band, did I really like and approve the music. It was like, as soon as everybody discovered how we had been going to make it sound, out of the blue the music I had already written turned one thing else.

So yeah, there have been instances the place it was a bit extra simple, like “Holy Waters” and “Oh, the Blood.” I simply sort of produced these and wrote them alone. However songs like “Mirage” and “Hounds,” they wouldn’t sound the way in which they do except the band had affected the writing course of. After which some songs like “Too A lot, Too A lot” and “Gates (Wait For Me)” wouldn’t even exist if we hadn’t written them within the room collectively from these sorts of improvised jams. There’s an entire combine throughout the entire album actually, however the cool factor was even on the songs that I used to be engaged on alone, like “Oh, the Blood” and “Holy Waters,” I felt just like the band nonetheless had a say as a result of they had been invested this time they usually beloved being a part of the method. Everybody had an opinion which meant that it wasn’t solely me making the inventive choices. So I really feel just like the filter as to what was good artwork was higher as a result of there have been extra individuals than me deciding. They steered me proper.

Yeah proper, it was extra filtered I suppose. Once more speaking about collaborations, I heard that you’ve got additionally been serving to co-write and produce with different artists. What was that like? What introduced you to try this?

Jacob Allen: I’ve actually all the time completed that. It’s one thing I’m very obsessed with as a result of I really like this world that I’m part of, this Puma Blue venture that I replicate — I wouldn’t say created — it’s one thing that I’m taking part in. But it surely’s simply that I hearken to a lot outdoors of the sounds that I’m making, so I don’t assume I’d really feel musically fulfilled if I used to be solely engaged on this music. I’ve all the time beloved the possibility to discover different individuals’s worlds and I like them taking me to their musical house and having the ability to discover that with them and hopefully deliver one thing to their world that they didn’t have earlier than. So it’s one thing I’ve completed since music college after I was 16. Nowadays it’s enjoyable to work with individuals that actually know what they’re doing, not by way of their capability however extra by way of their imaginative and prescient. It’s enjoyable to work with those that know who they’re and have one thing to say, and you’ll sort of simply present up and convey somewhat of what you do but additionally try to sort of meet them of their world. So it’s actually enjoyable being only a producer or only a guitarist, versus a singer or the inventive voice. It offers me much more freedom to do stuff that I wouldn’t do on this venture, and hopefully sort of simply intensify what they’re doing already. Yeah, I actually adore it. I’d like to do extra, particularly within the hip hop and R&B realm. I really feel like that’s the place my manufacturing lends itself higher than say guitar music, which is sort of what I’m doing on this venture, and perhaps that’s why I don’t really feel the necessity to try this a lot. However yeah, after I’m residence alone I’m principally simply listening to love Burial. So I like to make productions for individuals and to work on songs for different individuals and simply discover their sound with them.

Yeah that’s actually cool. And also you had a radio present proper? Like throughout this previous fall was it?

Jacob Allen: Yeah I used to. I actually miss it truly. You possibly can put it within the article: if anybody desires to rent me. I used to be working with Worldwide FM primarily based out of England, and that was a month-to-month present and simply so enjoyable to share music and to only type of discover with the listeners the stuff that I discover in my headphones each month. However sadly they needed to cease their radio station, they sort of hit a little bit of a monetary wall. I feel they’re nonetheless getting in some capability, however they needed to let go of everybody. So yeah I actually miss that, it’s actually enjoyable. I like to curate playlists and DJ. Sorry, what was the query?

It simply got here to me while you had been speaking concerning the different artists. There wasn’t actually a query. Simply listening to you speak about loving to share music with different artists jogged my memory of your radio present.

Jacob Allen: Yeah it’s nice, I simply like to put individuals on to good things simply as a lot as I like to get put onto good things. I feel there generally is a little little bit of a gatekeep-y factor relating to a number of the DJ tradition and a number of the radio tradition. I really like when stations cater in direction of letting everybody in, like “come sit with us,” versus “you possibly can’t sit with us.” That felt like a extremely enjoyable alternative to discover that and put individuals in entrance of the music that conjures up me.

It’s true, individuals do are inclined to gatekeep music! I feel it occurs in each style too.

Jacob Allen: Yeah I agree, I don’t know why that’s. I suppose as a result of music feels particular and perhaps some individuals really feel like they’ve put in plenty of work into discovering cool stuff, however I simply don’t know why it must be like that. I feel should you’ve received one thing good you must share it. It’s an excessive amount of of a tragic world to gatekeep issues.

Along with your debut album In Reward of Shadows, you talked concerning the title being a celebration of darkness in a method. However then with this one, Holy Waters, it ends with the message of “don’t let the darkish take you complete.” Would you say your relationship with darkness has modified?

Jacob Allen: It’s simply deepened. I don’t know if it’s modified. I nonetheless really feel like in a method, this album is identical message: that there can’t be mild with out darkish. I really feel like in a wierd method, that’s been my message this complete time, because the first EP, I simply didn’t know that on the time. I feel In Reward of Shadows was the primary time I managed to articulate that, and with this album it’s simply deepened. I simply really feel just like the lights are brighter, there are some moments on this album that had been genuinely a few of my favourite moments I’ve skilled in music, like we had been simply all taking part in collectively and so current with one another and I hear that again and I can’t imagine we managed to document it.

It simply seems like a lovely {photograph} of a second that you simply’re so completely satisfied you’ve managed to {photograph}. However then the darks have a lot extra depth to them now. And I’m not simply singing about heartbreak, I’m singing about loss of life. Life simply received extra fucking intense because the final album. (sighs) Oh it’s simply much more of a grown up feeling, you simply get to this age and out of the blue shit is much more actual. I really feel like that final line was my method of claiming “don’t let it win.” After the primary album, it was so vital to me that individuals take away the message of: positive this may be your unhappy music in order for you it to be, however provided that you’re taking it away with this message of that that’s vital in addition to the opposite aspect of it. Disappointment and darkness are vital issues; they don’t must be so dooming.

So I suppose for this album and the subject material, I wished to verify I didn’t depart individuals with the flawed message that there’s solely darkness. I feel that it was vital to only have a footnote on the finish of the document that simply mentioned, “these will be scary issues to look into, scary tunnels to go down, however you possibly can’t let it swallow you on the finish of the day.”

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