Will Sergeant has been the guitarist for Echo and the Bunnymen for an unimaginable 45 years, offering modern and influential guitar strains for probably the greatest and most revered bands to emerge from the chaos of punk. Right here he takes us by means of his life and occasions, as featured in his newest e book, Echoes. 

Will Sergeant and his guitar enjoying have grown up in public and he has come a good distance since strumming the chords that made up The Bunnymen’s first single, Photos On My Wall, launched method again in 1979. He has lengthy since been one of many nation’s most revered guitarists, at all times able to shock and of discovering new or other ways to play his guitar.

Final week noticed the publication of his second e book, Echoes, focussing on the beginning of Echo and the Bunnymen’s rise to worldwide fame and acclaim. The e book is a necessary learn for all followers and students of each The Bunnymen and publish punk music typically – see our full assessment right here.

For this interview, Will and I took a desk in his native, a standard pub set on the picturesque banks of the Leeds – Liverpool canal to look again at his story up to now and to see what the longer term holds in retailer.

He’s a straightforward conversationalist with an equally straightforward sense of humour, one thing that readers of his books will not be anticipating.

In your books, the younger Will Sergeant comes throughout as fairly shy and introverted, however you aren’t like that as of late.
“To start with I used to be fairly shy and hid on the again. I nonetheless don’t soar about onstage, I favor lurking within the shadows.”

So how do you discover it speaking about your self so brazenly and in such element in your books?
“Perhaps it was all simply being saved up and now its being launched. The Bunnymen introduced me out of my shell, the travelling particularly, you simply turn out to be extra worldly, seeing various things and being in bizarre conditions. The shy exterior simply will get chipped away by all that. After I was at work [Sergeant was a trainee chef], when The Bunnymen began and we had been doing gigs in London, the waitresses who used to work there mentioned to me in the future ‘God you’ve actually come out of your shell’.

To me, London was like this magical land and when you’re going there frequently and also you’ve obtained followers it does bolster you up in some way.

We had been type of conceited as nicely, we had that Scouse conceitedness happening and that was a part of it as nicely, that shared bravado. However as you become older you get extra used to issues and turn out to be extra grown up and also you cope with issues. “

How did you go about writing the e book, did you sit in entrance of a laptop computer or did you dictate it?
“On a laptop computer. What I did was I had a e book the place I made notes of issues that I remembered and I talked to a couple individuals after which I began remembering just a few extra bit. It could look like I’ve a very good reminiscence, but it surely’s as a result of issues occurred in a line. Plus there have been months in between the place we had been simply dossing round and doing nothing, so it appears such as you bear in mind every little thing however actually you solely bear in mind key issues. There are a great deal of gigs I don’t bear in mind enjoying. However I do bear in mind the Insanity gig the place we had been getting bottled off.” [The Bunnymen shared an early gig with Bad Manners and Madness]

That was an odd lineup trying again.
“On the time we didn’t assume ‘it is a bizarre invoice’, it appeared to be like something goes in these days. We had been laughing about it after we obtained again within the dressing room although. Pete [De Freitas], scarpered that night time so I didn’t get an opportunity to see if he was okay. It was his first gig with us.”

That was a hell of a primary gig!
“I’ve gone by means of the dates and I’m certain that was his first gig. I can’t see some other from when he got here to see us at Eric’s earlier than Christmas and the London gig.

We simply thought he was nice. We didn’t actually have anything to check him to, we didn’t strive some other drummers, it wasn’t a case of ‘he’ll do’ it was extra like ‘we’ve obtained a drummer now’. We didn’t audition him, we wouldn’t know if he was a superb drummer or a foul drummer actually, until he’d have been actually horrible. However we obtained Pete De Freitas.”

How did that come about?
“Invoice Drummond and Dave Balfe went and obtained him. They’d heard about him and thought we should always give him a strive. The beauty of Invoice is one thing can be recommended and he’ll simply exit and do it, he’s useless good at organising and making issues occur. He didn’t assume I used to be going high be glad about getting a drummer, however the drum machine we had was restricted. I needed to tweak the settings between songs utilizing little marks. It wasn’t a digital factor so if I moved a dial previous a mark by about an eight of an inch and it will be useless quick, it was a little bit of a nightmare like that.

Pete wished to be a guitarist actually. He performed guitar at a few our gigs. We did a Scottish tour with Ian Broudie, we performed the Outer Hebrides, locations like Lewis and Skye and some different locations, island hopping a bit, and I’ve obtained photos of Pete enjoying guitar on stage. Ian Broudie was enjoying guitar as nicely and he was additionally mixing it from the stage. We performed tiny locations like Portree Gathering Corridor and there was one skinhead, one punk, a mod, a greaser, a hippy woman freaking out, there was considered one of every little thing within the crowd.”

Was this all a part of the post-punk factor of desirous to do issues in another way?
“Yeah, it was like we had been on the lookout for new issues, issues that weren’t rock n roll. It’s like the way in which we used to have Pete on the entrance of the stage, so we had been all in a line, we thought ‘that’s crap, having the drummer on the again’.”

Within the e book you have got fairly an outlined publish punk conscience, is that also with you as of late?
“Undoubtedly, at all times attempting to keep away from what everyone else was doing, like boring chord sequences the place you understand what the subsequent chord goes to be, that’s what we had been attempting to keep away from. However we didn’t give it some thought, it was simply pure. We didn’t assume ‘what can we do to be totally different’, we simply knew we had been avoiding all that corny stuff, rock n roll Chuck Berry guitar strains and that type of stuff.

It was all new on the time. I imply, you possibly can’t think about Pleasure Division doing Roll Over Beethoven are you able to?”

One of many issues that amazes me about your story is you Mac and Les all obtained collectively to kind a gaggle and then you definately obtained Pete concerned, and it simply so occurred to prove that Mac has this unimaginable voice, and it simply so occurred that you just grew to become this extremely influential guitarist, Les turned out to be a cool and melodic bass participant and it simply so occurred that Pete De Freitas was one of many world’s finest drummers. How does that occur, do the celebs all align completely and issues simply occur to prove like this?
“I’ve obtained no thought. It simply appeared to work out. And it’s nonetheless going, we’re off to America in November and now we have the orchestral Ocean Rain gigs developing, we’re enjoying the Albert Corridor and the Liverpool M&S Enviornment. There’s nonetheless a great deal of individuals who need to come and see us. It’s nice, however I don’t perceive how we ended up right here.

We weren’t like, say U2, who obtained huge as a result of they performed each little city in America a number of occasions and the phrase obtained round and so they had an actual grass roots factor happening, however we didn’t have the endurance for that. We weren’t doing it to turn out to be the largest band on this planet.

Invoice informed us that after we performed the Lyceum with U2, their supervisor got here as much as Invoice and mentioned they wished to vary the settings on the blending desk, and we had been headlining so Invoice informed him no. And he mentioned to Invoice “you’re going to remorse this Drummond” or one thing like that. Haha, threatened by U2! Invoice mentioned be sure you put that in your e book! However I forgot. Perhaps it might probably go within the subsequent one.”

When did you’re feeling that you just’d first made it as a band, that you just had been turning into profitable?
“I feel in all probability enjoying The Whiskey A Go Go in Los Angeles or the primary American tour we did. It was nuts, abruptly we had been in America. You already know, I’d been to Rhyll for 3 days. That was fairly good. Particularly for me as a giant Doorways fan.”

You bought in comparison with The Doorways fairly a bit again within the day.
“I used to be the one one who favored The Doorways, not one of the others favored them. It was solely as a result of I used to be enjoying them on a regular basis within the van that they began getting used to it and liking it. The primary time I heard The Doorways was when my brother had Unusual Days. I went to his home in Pinner, on the outskirts of London, and he performed Unusual days and I believed ‘that’s improbable!’ and I went up and acquired it out of my paper spherical cash after which began getting all The Doorways information and I simply grew to become obsessive about them. They had been by far my favorite band till punk got here alongside. Them and The Velvets.”

By the point we get to the tip of e book two, at that time are you stunned at how your life is popping out?
“I’m nonetheless stunned. Issues had been simply taking place, it wasn’t the be all and finish all to us, or to me a minimum of, that we grew to become this massive band, it was the doing of it. That was the reward. I wasn’t arsed about chart positions or happening High of the Pops, I hated High of the Pops.

One time we had been due on High of the Pops doing Sevens Seas and I went to the Lake District and so they needed to put Jake [Brockman, Bunnymen associate and keyboard player] in disguise on guitar.”

Mac has described Heaven Up Right here as being ‘Will’s album’. Would you agree with that?
“It’s all of us on that album. I used to be a little bit of a management freak within the studio with Heaven Up Right here, I informed Pete to not play cymbals however he simply embraced it, went onto the toms and began this complete new vibe. Cymbals simply appeared a bit rocky and in addition they crammed up the a part of the aural panorama the place I wished to dwell, that skinny, excessive guitar sound, like Subway Sect and The Fall. So it was type of a egocentric factor, but it surely turned out alright.

Lots of people in bands find it irresistible, I do know Flea [Red Hot Chilli Peppers] loves it. He obtained in contact with me and mentioned ‘you’re in my e book, would you like a replica?’ and I already had it so I despatched him an image of me holding it saying ‘what, this garbage? Do you thoughts not interrupting once I’m studying!’ Ha ha.”

You’re two fairly totally different bands although.
“Properly I feel it’s Les’ bass being fairly outstanding, in that spiky method, and we had components of funk. I imply we thought it was funk, it was the whitest model of funk you’re going to come back throughout, it was that uneven stuff, which was a bit Velvets, a bit Speaking Heads, so we had that aspect in there and I feel that’s what the Chilli Peppers picked up on.””

Within the early days, would you ever have described your self as a punk?
“Sure. We had been all punks. But it surely was extra Fall space punk, or Wire. We had been undoubtedly punks and we had been into the punk factor, the entire angle of it was nice.

It began out, for me, with individuals like Dr Feelgood, it was extra their angle than the rhythm & blues music they used to play. However we didn’t know there was different stuff happening as nicely, like I’d by no means heard of Can then. I’d heard of The Residents. No matter John Peel was enjoying, that’s what we’d heard. We didn’t have entry to the Web again then, you needed to work arduous to seek out issues, lots of it was simply phrase of mouth.

That’s what was nice about Eric’s, you’d hear a great deal of information you’d by no means heard earlier than as a result of Norman the DJ was enjoying a great deal of stuff. It will need to have been the identical within the 60s with all of the psych stuff happening in locations like UFO, Center Earth and people golf equipment.”

For me, that was the pure development of punk, from bands like The Pistols and The Conflict into the likes of Wire and The Slits after which into Pleasure Division and The Bunnymen. And to me it was such a disgrace that it grew to become about The Lurkers after which The Exploited and that type of factor, that wasn’t the development that appeared to have began and that you just had been a part of.
“Proper. As quickly as the primary photograph was taken for cash of a punk with a Mohican on the Kings Street that was the tip of punk. If you had gangs of punks ready for vacationers to present them just a few bob for a photograph. It was extra arty than that, with Vivienne Westwood and Jamie Reid, they had been instrumental in giving it an entire arty vibe.

The time period publish punk hadn’t been invented on the time so nobody knew what to name us. We had been referred to as post-modernist for some time, then lengthy overcoat music, then neo-psychedelia. We had a great deal of silly titles. These days, individuals assume we’re goth!”

How would you describe The Bunnymen’s music?
“I don’t know. Attention-grabbing rock music perhaps.”

I used to be watching Ian McCulloch on the Basic Songwriters sequence on Sky Arts, and he had a gaggle of musicians enjoying Bunnymen music whereas he sang just a few hits. The guitarist was enjoying your elements observe for observe, but it surely didn’t sound the identical, it sounded too good and neat.
“That’s good, I don’t need to be good or neat.”

Who would you depend as your favorite guitarists, then and now?
“Firstly it will have been Jimmy Web page, Hendrix, Robbie Krieger, Phil Manzanera. The Tom Verlaine & Richard Lloyd, that combo, Andy Gill and Barney from New Order/Pleasure Division. I actually like just a few different individuals now, like Gábor Szabó. He’s type of a jazz guitarist, however he makes use of an acoustic guitar with a pickup and he will get this rattly horrible suggestions, but it surely’s type of fascinating what he does.

I’ve been listening to lots of Fairport Conference and Richard Thompson. I’m fairly certain Tom Verlaine talked about him in an interview just a few years in the past and if you take heed to lots of Richard Thompson you possibly can spot bits of Tom Verlaine’s sound in there. He undoubtedly has the identical depth as Tom Verlaine and among the bizarre timing. He has a music referred to as A Sailor’s Life and it’s very Richard Lloyd and Tom Verlaine.”

Have been any of these a direct affect on the music you’ve made?
“Clearly Wilko Johnson.”

I need to admit I don’t hear a lot Wilko in your music.
“I obtained a black Telecaster due to Wilko Johnson and I feel Crocodiles is essentially the most Wilko-ish one. I can’t play like he does after all.”

How does it really feel nonetheless enjoying songs like Rescue as of late?
“I’ve no drawback with it, it’s the one time I ever hear them.”

You don’t take heed to you personal information?
“I performed Crocodiles and Heaven Up Right here once I was doing the books, attempting to recollect what had been doing within the studio. They sounded good. There’s clearly sounds in there that niggle me, however on the time they had been actually annoying. You already know, “why did I do this” or “I want I’d performed that half a bit thicker”, that form of factor. I used to go away actually upset, with butterflies within the abdomen, however the dangerous butterflies that imply you’re fearful.

Now I don’t fear about it in any respect, it’s what it’s, however there are issues that I want we’d finished barely totally different. I skinny we should always have had extra of Les’ bass on there, however Les type of prefer it twangy.”

What would you say is your favorite Bunnymen album?
“Most likely Heaven Up Right here or Ocean rain. I’d say my least favorite is Crocodiles of the primary 4. I nonetheless prefer it higher than the Gray Album.”

The Gray Album was type of a comeback album wasn’t it.
“Yeah, we had a 12 months off. Invoice Drummond got here up with that one. That was a silly thought. I bear in mind Roxy Music had a 12 months off and we had been actually disillusioned to listen to that they had been going away for ma 12 months, however after they got here again they had been totally different. They’d gone a bit softer, and so had we. We’ve finished some good ones since, Siberia is fairly good and I like Flowers.”

What’s subsequent for Echo and the Bunnymen?
“We’re doing an album and it’s simply taking ages. There’s no launch date set but although.”

And what’s subsequent for you, e book half three?
“Yeah, I’ve already began cataloguing what I need to write about. I put issues in a giant lengthy listing and get all of it in the suitable order after which hone in on issues. Individuals ask me the right way to write a e book, but it surely’s simply issues that occurred, I don’t assume it’s arduous.

I’ve been studying Clive James these days, a e book referred to as Cultural Amnesia, it takes individuals out of historical past and writes a paragraph on them. It’s humorous, he’s useless sarky. I’m not like him although, he’s a correct author.”

You don’t assume you’re a correct author?
“I don’t assume I’m a correct something. I prefer it when individuals inform me they’ve learn my e book. I’ve already had emails from individuals saying ‘I’ve completed your e book already, liked it’ and that type of factor.”

It’s straightforward to learn. I saved considering ‘simply one other web page after which I’ll put it down’, but it surely isn’t straightforward to place down.
“That’s what I wished, I didn’t need it to be stuffed with technical stuff concerning the studio. There’s a little bit of that in, however not hundreds. I wished it to be straightforward to learn, why would you learn a e book that was troublesome.”

It doesn’t essentially observe although that simply because somebody is an efficient singer or a superb guitarist that they’ll even be good at writing books.
“Properly I began writing when there was a label placing out the Bunnymen again catalogue with these actually cool covers and so they requested me to jot down the sleeve notes and that’s once I first began considering that I used to be in a position to clarify issues. I like being descriptive, I like seeing how a curtain falls or no matter and having the ability to describe it. It’s like portray with phrases.

Within the first e book I liked going again to once I was a child and remembering what it was like, and my mates from faculty and enjoying by the canal. All of the stuff we used to rise up to love breaking greenhouse home windows and stuff like that.

The following one goes to be Porcupine and Ocean Rain. Additionally, me, Les, Jake and Invoice Butt went on vacation to Russia, or the Soviet Union because it was again then. That was the most effective vacation I’ve ever had I feel, it was definitely essentially the most memorable one. It was horrible but it surely was memorable. After we got here again we seemed like we’d been in a gulag for 2 weeks, we had been a few steps away from consuming one another’s boots.”

So is it going to be a sequence of books, every overlaying a few albums?
“I’d wish to department out, perhaps write a e book on psychedelic bands or… I’ve obtained a few concepts for fiction books. I’ve obtained a chilly conflict story, I like all these Len Deighton and John Le Carre books, the place spies are like shady, grubby little figures, they’re not James Bond. That’s what they’re actually, they should mix in and don’t need to be standing out, Just like the Rosenbergs in America, they seemed like a mean couple. Sleepers.

I’ll in all probability by no means do it, however I’ve finished about half of it. I’ve began a sci-fi novel as nicely. Truly I began that ages in the past, in all probability earlier than I did the sleeve notes for the Bunnymen albums. I’ve finished 17 chapters on that, it’s obtained a correct story and unusual worlds.”

And perhaps that’s a superb place to attract issues to an in depth, with tales of unusual worlds and guarantees of issues to come back. Regardless of his protestations, Will Sergeant could be very a lot an actual author. His two books up to now come strongly advisable and the thought of novels is one which we hope is quickly realised.

Within the meantime, there’s loads for his followers to delve into, each with the Bunnymen and below his personal steam.

~

Echoes may be purchased right here

Bunnyman may be purchased right here

Echo and the Bunnymen tour dates:
Tue 12 Sep 2023 – Royal Live performance Corridor, Nottingham
Thu 14 Sep 2023 – Usher Corridor, Edinburgh
Sat 16 Sep 2023 – M&S Financial institution Enviornment, Liverpool
Mon 18 Sep 2023 – Royal Albert Corridor, London

Will Sergeant may be discovered on Fb and Twitter.

All phrases by Banjo. Discover his creator archive right here.